Friday night I was doing my usual naked pre-shower routine – I washed my face with soap, lathering every inch of my face until it was all white. I then proceeded to open my eyes and did my best Jabbawockeez impression before I hopped in the shower. That’s when I realized I was missing Michael Jordan’s Hall of Fame induction speech! Half-wet, I ran out and tuned into ESPN.
It was a great speech and a great event that brought back some of my favorite sports moments of my youth. Upon the conclusion of MJ’s speech, I tried to think of a current NBA player whose legacy may create debate when they are eligible for the Hall. Who did I come up with? Steve Nash. Contrary to popular belief, I always thought that despite his two MVP awards, he would fall short of an invite to the Hall of Fame. He had bloomed too late in his career, and he didn’t have the overall career achievements that Hall of Fame point guards have. It seems that now, at the age of 35, he will not be able to add much more to his legacy to better his Hall of Fame bid. After hopping out of the shower, I decided to do some research to see where Nash stacks up against the current Hall of Famers.
So what qualifications does a point guard need to reach basketball immortality? The voters have been extremely selective when it comes to selecting point guards to the Hall of Fame. In the past 25 years, only five post-1970 point guards have been selected for enshrinement – Walt “Clyde” Frazier (1987), Nate “Tiny” Archibald (1991), Isiah Thomas (2000) Earvin “Magic” Johnson (2002) and John Stockton (2009).
CAREER ACCOMPLISHMENTS
| INDUCTED | INDUCTEE | CHAMPIONSHIPS | ALL-NBA | ALL-DEFENSE | ALL-STAR | MVP |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 1987 | John Stockton | 0 | 10 | 5 | 10 | 0 |
| 1991 | Magic Johnson | 5 | 10 | 0 | 12 | 3 |
| 2000 | Isiah Thomas | 2 | 5 | 0 | 12 | 0 |
| 2002 | Tiny Archibald | 1 | 5 | 0 | 6 | 0 |
| 2009 | Walt Frazier | 2 | 6 | 7 | 7 | 0 |
Each of these players achieved a minimum of six All-Star game selections, five All-NBA selections, in addition to having at least 13 seasons in their careers. All but Stockton have won an NBA Championship at least once.
Many believe Gary Payton and Jason Kidd will be the latest point guards to be inducted into the Hall of Fame – and for good reason. Based on statistics and individual achievements, it looks like they belong in the Hall. For sake of argument let’s include their resumes to see how they compare to Nash’s.
| PLAYER | CHAMPIONSHIPS | ALL-NBA | ALL-DEFENSE | ALL-STAR | MVP |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Gary Payton | 1 | 9 | 9 | 9 | 0 |
| Jason Kidd | 0 | 6 | 9 | 9 | 0 |
| Steve Nash | 0 | 6 | 0 | 6 | 2 |
CAREER AVERAGES
| PLAYER | YRS | PPG | APG | SPG | TPG | FG% | FT% | 3PT% |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| John Stockton | 19 | 13.1 | 10.5 | 2.2 | 2.8 | 52% | 83% | 38% |
| Magic Johnson | 13 | 19.5 | 11.2 | 1.9 | 3.9 | 52% | 85% | 30% |
| Isiah Thomas | 13 | 19.2 | 9.2 | 1.9 | 3.8 | 45% | 76% | 29% |
| Tiny Archibald | 13 | 18.8 | 7.4 | 1.1 | 2.7 | 47% | 81% | 22% |
| Walt Frazier | 13 | 18.9 | 6.1 | 1.9 | 2.1 | 49% | 79% | - |
| Gary Payton | 17 | 16.3 | 6.7 | 1.8 | 2.3 | 47% | 73% | 32% |
| Jason Kidd | 17 | 13.8 | 9.2 | 2.0 | 3.1 | 40% | 78% | 32% |
| Steve Nash | 13 | 14.4 | 8.0 | 0.8 | 2.7 | 49% | 90% | 43% |
Nash is in great physical shape, better than many players his age. He can further add to his career numbers with a few more seasons. But this isn’t baseball. There is no basketball equivalent to 3,000 hits or 500 home runs that would likely guarantee a pass to the Hall. It is likely that his next few seasons would see a decline in averages, lowering his already not-so-impressive career averages in points, assists, and steals per game.
The strongest case for Nash is his winning of two MVP awards which came in as many seasons. He became just the 9th player ever to win the award in consecutive years and only the fifth guard in NBA history to win the award, placing him in elite company with Bob Cousy, Jordan, Magic and Allen Iverson. His career 3 pt shooting and free throw shooting percentages are better than any current Hall of Fame point guard.
Despite this, I don’t think Nash will have what it takes to be inducted to the Hall once his career is finished. At 35 years old, his career averages will likely drop even further. If inducted today, Nash would have the second lowest scoring average, third lowest assists average, second worst turnover rate, second fewest All-NBA selections, and the fewest number of championships, All-Star Game selections, and All-Defensive selections – not exactly the most compelling argument for his bid for the Hall.
My guess is that regardless of which conference he plays for after the 2009-2010 season, he will have a very tough time adding to his All-NBA and All-Star Game selections due to his competition. In the West, he would be competing with Chris Paul, Chauncey Billups, Baron Davis, Deron Williams and Tony Parker. If he were to head to the East, he would be competing against the likes of Devin Harris, Rajon Rondo and Derrick Rose.
When viewing the best years of a player’s career, it looks as if Nash clearly belongs in the Hall of Fame discussion:
Statistical Averages During Players’ “Prime” Years (26-32)
| PLAYER | PPG | APG |
|---|---|---|
| John Stockton | 16.0 | 13.3 |
| Magic Johnson | 21.1 | 12.3 |
| Isiah Thomas | 17.8 | 8.3 |
| Tiny Archibald | 18.4 | 7.2 |
| Walt Frazier | 20.1 | 5.8 |
| Steve Nash* | 16.8 | 10.1 |
Statistical Averages During Players’ “Non-Prime” Years (All other seasons)
| PLAYER | PPG | APG |
|---|---|---|
| John Stockton | 11.3 | 8.1 |
| Magic Johnson | 17.9 | 10.1 |
| Isiah Thomas | 20.7 | 10.3 |
| Tiny Archibald | 19.2 | 7.6 |
| Walt Frazier | 17.0 | 6.6 |
| Steve Nash* | 10.9 | 5.2 |
*- Because Nash reached his “prime” a bit later than the other players, he was given the benefit of the doubt and his seven best seasons were used (28-34).
(Editor’s Note: Thanks to all the readers who pointed out the mistake in Steve Nash’s assist average. It’s been fixed. I’ll make sure Mr. Illini pays for his mistake by forcing him to watch replays from Missouri’s whooping of Illinois in week 1 of the college football season.)
However, the Hall of Fame does not reward players for just a few outstanding seasons. Nash, even in his seven best seasons, looks like he barely belongs in the same group as the Hall of Famers. His poor averages during the rest of his career clearly suggest his omission from the Hall of Fame.
Another major one of Nash’s major shortcomings is that he has failed to go deep into the playoffs in his career. Payton, Kidd, and every Hall of Fame point guard have gone to the NBA Finals at least once. Every Hall of Fame point guard has won a championship at least once, except for Stockton (who owns all-time steals and assists records).
It also doesn’t help his case that Mike D’Antoni’s high octane offensive system boosted his points and assists per game totals. His season averages for points and assists saw a noticeable jump in his years playing for Coach Mike D’Antoni, then fell back down to his normal career averages after D’Antoni left for New York. Point guards seem to flourish in D’Antoni’s system, as New York Knicks’ Chris Duhon similarly saw an increase in his stats.
Steve Nash 2000-2009
| AGE | TEAM | COACH | PPG | APG |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| 26 | Dallas Mavericks | Don Nelson | 15.6 | 7.3 |
| 27 | Dallas Mavericks | Don Nelson | 17.9 | 7.7 |
| 28 | Dallas Mavericks | Don Nelson | 17.7 | 7.3 |
| 29 | Dallas Mavericks | Don Nelson | 14.5 | 8.8 |
| 30 | Phoenix Suns | Mike D'Antoni | 15.5 | 11.5 |
| 31 | Phoenix Suns | Mike D'Antoni | 18.8 | 10.5 |
| 32 | Phoenix Suns | Mike D'Antoni | 18.6 | 11.6 |
| 33 | Phoenix Suns | Mike D'Antoni | 16.9 | 11.1 |
| 34 | Phoenix Suns | Terry Porter/Alvin Gentry | 15.7 | 9.7 |
Chris Duhon 2004-2009
| AGE | TEAM | COACH | PPG | APG |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| 22 | Chicago Bulls | Scott Skiles | 5.9 | 4.9 |
| 23 | Chicago Bulls | Scott Skiles | 8.7 | 5.0 |
| 24 | Chicago Bulls | Scott Skiles | 7.2 | 4.0 |
| 25 | Chicago Bulls | Scott Skiles | 5.8 | 4.0 |
| 26 | New York Knicks | Mike D'Antoni | 11.1 | 7.2 |
I love Nash – he revitalized the game of basketball in instilled a much-needed excitement and tempo to the NBA. He popularized a run-and-gun offense that the league hadn’t seen in over two decades. When it Nash’s turn comes to be voted into the Hall, I don’t think his career 14.4 ppg, 8.0 apg, and two MVP awards should grant him access to basketball’s most sacred ground.
In the old days, you could get into the Hall by impacting the game a certain way without having dominant stats, but nowadays it seems like you need to do both. It’s clear that the current definition of a Hall of Famer in the past two decades or so, for basketball and also baseball, that you need not be just an elite player, but an elite player FOR A LONG PERIOD OF TIME. This is where Nash falls short. If you could get inducted into the hall for just being elite for a few seasons, Grant Hill and Penny Hardaway would be Hall of Famers.
Although many experts have pegged Nash as a first-ballot Hall of Famer, once voters carefully look over his entire body of work Nash will certainly be left out.
September 16th, 2009 at 5:26 pm
Nash's APG during his prime (age 28-34) is actually 10.1, not 7.7. This puts him only behind Magic and Stockton in the statistical category, and regardless of his offense, makes him worthy by this standard.
September 17th, 2009 at 1:11 am
steve nash needs to appear in an nba finals. not really to make the hall of fame, but because it just needs to happen.
September 16th, 2009 at 5:29 pm
Nash averaged much more than 7.7 assists per game in his prime. Do your math over.
September 16th, 2009 at 5:29 pm
Pretty sure that no player who has won an MVP has failed to make it into the Hall of Fame. Or at least the list is really short.
Nash has not only one, but two trophies won back-to-back.
Whether or not Nash deserves those two MVPs is another debate entirely, but they will ensure his enshrinement.
September 16th, 2009 at 5:45 pm
Idiotic assessment. Stats, stats, stats (some inaccurate); blah, blah, blah. Nash passes the "smell test." Fantastic player. Jason Kidd can't shoot, never could; does that count for anything?
September 16th, 2009 at 5:47 pm
I think a key qualification Nash has that you breezed by is that he is, bar none, the best shooter in the game over the past 5-7 years. His 3PT% is 5th all-time. His FT% is 2nd all-time. He's shot over 50% from the field FIVE straight years. And his True Shooting Percentage is 16th all-time – and the only 2 point guards ahead of him are Stockton and Magic.
As a pure point, Nash would be a good candidate for the HOF, though not a slam dunk. When you factor in how productive a shooter he is, it's a no-brainer.
September 16th, 2009 at 5:48 pm
Nash has always been over-rated. I agree with this completely, he only flourished under D'Antoni's 7 seconds or less system but still failed to make the Finals – at least Allen Iverson carried the 76'ers to the Finals when he won his MVP in 2001. Stockton's been in the Finals a few times, Gary Payton helped carry the Sonics to the Finals with Kemp in 96, honestly, what the hell has Steve Nash really ever done for the Suns?
September 16th, 2009 at 6:09 pm
Where you even watching those playoff runs with the Suns? A million and one "what if" moments all swung AGAINST them. To get to the finals a team either has to be fantastic or lucky, and generally a bit of both. Luck ALWAYS went against the Nash lead Suns when they needed it. Statistics be damned, Steve Nash embodies what NBA players should be. He's the most modest star to grace this league, perhaps ever. Stand up guy, excellent player, excellent teammate, ideal point guard. A first ballot hall of famer.
September 16th, 2009 at 6:06 pm
Your Duhon comparison is flawed and idiotic. Duhon received a huge increase in playing time after joining D'Antoni's system (almost 1.5 times as many minutes) while Nash's minutes never saw any spike.
September 16th, 2009 at 6:19 pm
I can understand the prediction that he won't be first ballot, but to say he won't make it all? Simply put, it's illogical. A player who wins 2 MVPs will not be left out of the HOF. It just won't happen. Let's not forget he also came in 2nd for MVP in 06-07. He's going to make it.
September 16th, 2009 at 6:22 pm
He's got the secret weapon none of those other guys have: he's not from the U.S. People from outside the U.S. get into the hall easier than those from the U.S. Look at all these subpar guys getting in just because they're from Europe and such. He'll get in, and people will complain, just like they did during his two "MVP" seasons.
September 16th, 2009 at 6:29 pm
Hall of Fame is for more than just the NBA. Nash was one of the best FIBA national team players on the planet for a decade. Maybe the best at times
Nash will be in the Hall of Fame. It will be interesting to see if he's first ballot.
September 16th, 2009 at 6:35 pm
Only four guards? Unless you meant point guards, which Jordan certainly was not, Kobe belongs on the list too. And Iverson's debatable as a PG, he's sort of played the position, but he's a SG in a tiny (superhuman) body.
Just looked at the list of MVPs throughout history, and wow, it completely Fs and Cs until Magic in 1986.
One could also argue Dr. J as a guard, although that's more because the MJ/Kobe big SGs patterned their game after his than the actual position he played.
September 16th, 2009 at 6:35 pm
"it completely"
Sheesh. "it is completely".
September 16th, 2009 at 6:43 pm
hey – i think your argument that nash only flourished under d'antonis high-octane offense is flawed, especially when you compare that to the other PGs in your article.
pretty much everyone of those (with the exception of kidd and payton who are not HOFs (yet), and to some degree stockton) have played in high octane offenses for the most part of their careers. i mean c'mon, back when Magic and Stock and Thomas played in the eighties, the team scoring average was something like 115-120 PPG per team. Denver actually gave up more than 130 PPGs in 90-91. Even thedefensive-minded Pistons averaged almost 110 a gamge during their championship runs. So these were all pretty much hight octane offenses -and my bet is that Nash would have pretty much avaraged the same on the Lalaland-offenses in the eighties / early nineties.
Inmy opinion, Nash definitely has a shot at making it. There have been worse inductions into the HOF – and some pretty bad omissions have been made anyway.
September 16th, 2009 at 6:56 pm
Guards who were NBA's MVP:
Bob Cousy (1956-57)
Oscar Robertson (1963-64)
Magic Johnson (1986-87, etc.)
Michael Jordan (1987-88, etc.)
Allen Iverson (2000-01)
Steve Nash (2004-05, etc.)
That makes Nash the sixth guard to win an MVP. Kobe's doesn't count because he won after Nash. The original article is still incorrect, however. When you're going to make these kind of claims, it seems sensible to make sure your basic facts are in order.
(NB: Nash is the fourth PG, but including Jordan in the list means you're not talking about PG's.)
September 18th, 2009 at 6:09 am
You are right about Cousy but I would count Oscar as a forward or a guard-forward, not just a guard.
September 18th, 2009 at 6:09 am
You are right about Cousy but I would count Oscar as a forward or a guard-forward, not just a guard. Fixed the error, thanks.
September 16th, 2009 at 7:32 pm
Question: what if Nash and the Suns both change their mind and mutually agree to trade him to a contender, where he picks up a ring as the starting point before he retires? Would a ring change your assessment, even if the projected statistical fade over the last few years of his career does pull down his career averages?
September 17th, 2009 at 1:37 am
I know by the "ring logic" Steve Kerr is an elite hall of famer especially when you consider his 3 PT averages. Let's all recognize Nash is the best statistical shooter of all time. 50-40-90 King! Better than Bird even!
September 16th, 2009 at 7:45 pm
I also find it interesting in Deadspins' recent articles about home team stats-padding, John Stockton is pretty much the posterboy beneficiary of home interpretations as to what an assist is.
To quote from the article: "'Jazz guys were pretty open about their liberalities. … John Stockton averaged 10 assists. Is that legit? It's legit because they entered it. If he's another guy, would he get 10? Probably not.'"
You look at YahooSports home-road splits, and Nash's assist average actually goes UP on the road.
September 16th, 2009 at 8:12 pm
Personally i think he is hall material. If his career starts in 1999-00, would we all agree he is a hall of famer? then he would have one bad year (most players rookie year), then he would bloom into a very soild player then explode 4 years later. With 2 MVPs he makes it in. Plus his first 2 years in the league he was behind kevin Johnson (basically a 20 and 9 pg) as well as sam cassell a 3rd year guard.
September 16th, 2009 at 9:47 pm
I am surprised that the article does not mention the all-time assists numbers. By the end of his career, Steve Nash will almost certainly pass Mark Jackson to land at second on the all-time assists list, with over 10,000 assists. I think this and two MVPs would get him into the hall of fame.
September 17th, 2009 at 2:52 pm
Is Mark Jackson a HOF?
September 16th, 2009 at 9:56 pm
This argument reeks of opinion and vendetta.
Using similar logic it could be argued that Tim Duncan's success can be attributed to a myraid of fouls that were never called against him, or that he and his team were the beneficiaries of favoritism, (anybody remember Tim Donaghy?). It could be argued that Shaq's success can be largely attributed to his size and not to skill. It could be argued that Iverson's success was due to selfishness. Even LeBron could fall in this category.
I for one won't make those arguments. What should be considered is what each player has done for the game, both on the court and off, and in this country and globally. Nash has always made his team both more successful more exciting to watch. He's always carried himself with dignity, and worked his tail off to get better and to make his team better. And nobody every considered the fact that he has a spinal defect that causes him frequent and severe pain, which he contiuously plays through.
Add to this the fact that no recipient of the league MVP has ever missed the Hall, and that Nash has two, and you've got a shoo-in. Not necessarilly on the first shot, but he'll definately get in.
September 16th, 2009 at 10:01 pm
what the heck dude!!!! if someone has won two MVPS i don't care who you are! you are a part of NBA history and are a solid basketball player if you are even close to runner up. He is a definite hall of famer without question.
September 16th, 2009 at 10:17 pm
how can you even write this crap?! its totally byest in many ways!!! a 6 time all star, 6 time all-NBA player is definitely up there! add two MVp awards which i don't know if you understand but that means MOST VALUABLE PLAYER: AKA the best player in the league! TWICE! and all doing this being a short, white, canadian guy. The guy has some of the most amazing vision can run the pick and roll to perfection and a great teammate who can also score the ball when needed! and if you argue he hasn't won any championships?! Well look who just got inducted to the hall of fame…. JOHN STOCKTON! Who is probably one of the best comparisons to him so don't try to taint his career! He has made the most of his time with the suns and stuck with the bad and has been one of the model players in the NBA
September 16th, 2009 at 10:35 pm
If Bill Walton can make the list of 50 greatest players with a couple of good seasons amids a career marred by injury, then Nash can get into the HOF on a bad day in his sleep.
September 16th, 2009 at 10:56 pm
All advanced metrics show Nash should've never won a single MVP. He was never a top 5 guy in the league.
September 16th, 2009 at 11:12 pm
As a previous commentor already noted, the main fault in this whole thing is not acknowledging Nash as an incredible shooter. His 3P% and FT% is the highest of any PG on the list, and it's well established Nash is easily one of the best shooters in the league.
September 16th, 2009 at 7:25 pm
Hey guys, sorry for the mistake on the stats, it's been updated to 10.1. That error doesn't make a difference in the point i'm trying to make, in that he was only "elite" in his prime years and that his "non-prime" years were not elite at all. Because his non-prime year numbers are so poor, it brings down his career averages down by a lot.
Thanks for participating in the discussion, I thought it was an interesting topic to cover and many of you make valid points for and against Nash.
September 16th, 2009 at 11:59 pm
If by second fewest All-NBA selections, you mean he has as many or more All-NBA selections than three of your five Hall of Fame players, then yes.
September 17th, 2009 at 1:00 am
I think that it's a little bit disingenuous to talk about how Nash ran up assists at the 'Dantoni' pace while not mentioning that the league as a whole in the 80's was played at a much faster pace than in the Nash era.
How does he compare in terms of per minute stats?
September 17th, 2009 at 3:41 am
Nash should be in the hall for the simple reason that like some of the greats before him he changed the way basketball was played.
George Mikan
Wilt Chamberlain
Bill Russell
Dr. J
Magic Johnson
Shaq
Michael Jordan
and Steve Nash
all changed the way basketball is played during their primes. While Nash's impact was not as long, the extent is undeniable.
September 17th, 2009 at 3:45 am
did nash change it or did dantoni change it? he seemed far less valuable and less effective in different systems. maybe dantoni's the HOF coach and nash the all-star but not HOF player.
i agree that you need good stats to go along with impact these days.
September 19th, 2009 at 2:35 pm
dude, look at the knicks man. d'antoni is a good offensive coach but nash was great with or without him. as to the decline in his stats from last year with porter and gentry, it can be attributed to the fewer games he played and fewer minutes per game. on top of that, the sudden change in personnel.
September 17th, 2009 at 5:51 am
Well, obvously some people just are not good enough to write sports articles.
Nash, on the other hand, is VERY good at what he does.
Only other ball player in history to shoot over 50% from the floor and over 40% on his trey and over 90% from the line more than one year was Larry Bird. Does Bird belong in the Hall of Fame? Bird accomplished that feet twice in his career. Nash just did it 3 years in a row. That is 3 in a row THUS FAR.This year could very well make it 4!!!! Nash only appeared to be on the decline when Porter messed with his game. Gentry and Nash are on the same wave lenght so be prepared for Mr. 4th Quarter to have a heck of a year.
Must be that you are right and all the rest of us are dumb? Lies that you have written and twisted are already coming back to bite you on your rear.
September 17th, 2009 at 11:25 am
In conclusion, this article is incoherent, illogical, and generally terrible. A summary of the points that have been raised in the comments so far.
(1) All 27 players who have won NBA MVP and who eligibly for the Basketball Hall of Fame are in the Basketball Hall of Fame
(2) You argue that Nash will be dinged for having never won a championship, playing in less All Star games and making less All-NBA teams than other hall of fame point guards, even though Nash's numbers really aren't that inferior and likely to improve.
(3) You fail to mention that Nash will likely end his career very high on the Career Assist total list.
(4) You underplay the importance of Nash's high shooting percentages
(5) You ignore Nash's contribution to the change in NBA offenses in the later part of this decade
Additionally, I would like to point out:
(1) You've made no argument to back up your assertion that Nash will not make the Hall of Fame. You've make a weak case for why he shouldn't make the hall of fame, but no case for why he won't. Frankly the assertion that the voters will leave a two time MVP out of the hall is ridiculous. BBR's hall of fame predictor gives Nash a 99.72% chance of making the Hall, and that is .28% too low.
(2) There is most definitely precedence for the Hall recognizing players for short periods of brilliance over long careers. See David Thompson, Bill Walton and Connie Hawkins. I believe that any player who is ever deemed the best player in the NBA for a particular season will (and should) be enshrined in the hall.
(3) Nash easily passes a Keltner list
A more interesting article would examine the odds of Tim Hardaway making the Hall of Fame.
September 17th, 2009 at 2:46 pm
this conversation is ASININE. what 2 time MVP doesn't get into the hall of fame (along with being the catalyst for making the nba interesting again after years of boring basketball).
and for those arguing about what one's "prime" constitutes…look up the word before you make asshole comments to others about it
September 17th, 2009 at 4:49 pm
I like Nash. I think he is a very good ball player. His current numbers don't support HOF entry. Looking at the career averages chart provides one difference when comparing Nash to the others in the chart. Those other players either took their teams to the finals or played in a finals.
Right now that is the biggest knock against Nash.
September 17th, 2009 at 6:40 pm
It's amazing to me how little of this conversation has focused on defense.
in my opinion, Nash's shooting, ball handling, and passing abilities are such that when he's on the floor, his team gets high-percentage shots on the offensive end almost every time down. He greatly improves the team's offense as a whole, and that is clearly a hall-of-fame level ability.
On the other side, though, Nash is a big defensive liability, and at a position that is a real problem again many top opponents.
I don't know who is a better player, but at the offensive end, I'd much rather have Nash than Stockton or Kidd.
September 18th, 2009 at 5:58 am
um last time i checked Kobe was a guard, correct? u said nash jordan magic iverson were the only guards to wiin an mvp.
September 18th, 2009 at 6:07 am
I said Nash *became* the fourth. I was wrong here because Bob Cousy (guard) won in '57 which would have made Nash the fifth ever MVP guard and Kobe the sixth. Oscar doesn't count because he was considered more of a forward than a guard.
September 18th, 2009 at 4:54 pm
saying Kidd should get in and not Nash doesnt make any sense. Take away Kidd's terrible shooting and Nash's below average defense and what do you have. Kidd only got rebounds because teammates let him, they have admitted it in the past.
September 19th, 2009 at 12:44 am
How can you say Nash was only a beneficiary of D'Antoni's system? Did he not lead the Mavericks when they were the highest scoring team TWO seasons in a row before he left for Phoenix? Was he not the PG on the league's highest-scoring offense SIX seasons in a row? He was. His all-nba and all-star numbers are identical to Archibald's with the only difference being Archibald has a championship, but Nash has two MVP's. The fact remains Nash is one of the most prolific assist men, and best passers, the game has ever seen.
He's one of the best shooters the game has ever seen, being a constant threat every year to shoot 90-50-40 (FT%, FG%, 3-pt%), which is just unheard of. He steps up and takes charges against anyone regardless if they're down 10 or up 20. He was voted the most valuable player two years in a row in the league, so if he doesn't make the HOF then I guess nobody that played during those two seasons is worthy? This argument is absolutely bogus.
-Starting PG on highest-scoring team SIX years in a row.
-One of the best passers to ever play the game.
-One of the best FT shooters to ever play the game.
-One of the purest overall shooters to ever play the game.
-Back-to-back MVP award winner
-Six-time All-NBA
-Six-time All-Star.
This article should have never been written…
September 19th, 2009 at 2:08 am
2 MVPs…..you coulda given him the 3rd, but the NBA decided it was Dirk's turn. as a coach, i value those shooting %s a lot more that the average fan. he's in, no doubt.
September 19th, 2009 at 2:31 am
One other consideration….is it the NBA HOF or the Basketball HOF? If the latter, you need to also factor in his role in international basketball – he carried his national team for years and tremendously elevated those around him.
September 19th, 2009 at 4:42 am
wait really? he should get into the hall of fame for "leading" Canada to a 7th place finish in 2000 and missing the Olympics altogether in 2004?
November 10th, 2009 at 4:49 am
50-40-90, 50-40-90, 50-40-90, and yet again this season, at 35, on pace for 50-40-90.
HOF.
January 19th, 2010 at 1:54 pm
i would take John Stockton all day over Steve Nash on both ends of the court. Stockton played some dirty D and did it put up his numbers in a 1/2 court offense basically. I agree that Steve Nash is overrated (he's a borderline HOF) but i think he still will make it one day.
January 29th, 2010 at 8:13 pm
Some things to add:
I don't find the arguments about his slow start all that compelling. When he entered the league he was on a team with Kevin Johnson, Jason Kidd and Michael Finley and I don't expect that was an easy group for a rookie (through 2nd year) to get any playing time with, especially since he was just entering the league and they were all established studs in their prime. His career per game numbers take a huge hit because he only played a limited amount of minutes behind those guys in his first few years (his fault?). You really need to compare his averages per 48 minutes if you going to look at his entire career and that tells an entirely different story. Additionally, almost every player he plays with is better because of it and all his teams do is win.
January 29th, 2010 at 8:14 pm
Some other things to note about Nash (before this 2009-2010 season).
7 time All Star
6 time ALL NBA (3 time first team) (will get another this year so it will be 7)
#1 All time in 3 point field goal percentage (for those who have made at least 1000 3's)
#13 All time in 3 point field goals made
#2 best free throw shooter of all time (.903)
8th All Time in assists per game (despite not starting first few years)
8th All Time total assists (will end careeer in top 5)
1 of 5 players in NBA history to go 50-40-90 in shooting percentage (FG-3PT-FT)
3 time NBA regular season leader for assists per game
3 time NBA regular season leader for total assists
January 29th, 2010 at 8:14 pm
Since becoming a full time starter in 2000-01 as a PG (9 years ago) – against his generation:
#1 in team wins amongst point guards
#1 in shooting efficiency amongst point guards
#1 in total assists
#1 in 50 win seasons
#1 in 60 win seasons
#1 in assists per 48 minutes
#1 in free throw percentage
#1 in All NBA selections amongst point guards
#1 in All star selections amongst point guards
#1 in MVP's (2)
Hall of Fame Chances: 100%. and he is still an all star….