I might be a bit late to the party, but seeing how the Magic had to shoot 62% just to win one against the Lakers, I decided to take a stab at the Kobe vs. LeBron argument and what might have been. Let’s begin with the characteristic of Kobe that his supporters most often cite in favor of him – clutch shooting. Much ado is made of Kobe’s “assassin’s mentality” and according to 82games.com, Kobe Bryant does in fact have LeBron James beat in “clutch” scoring, which is defined as “4th quarter or overtime, less than 5 minutes left, neither team ahead by more than 5 points,” by a margin of 56.7 to 55.9 (keep in mind that all these stats are adjusted to 48 minutes). Kobe also beat out LeBron in FT% (92% to 85%) and TO (4.8 to 3.0). LeBron had the edge when it comes to FG% (55.6% to 45.7%), amazingly 3PT% (42.1% to 40.0%), rebounds (14.3 to 8.4), assists (12.6 to 5.7), blocks (1.7 to 0.0), and steals (3.5 to 1.0).
What does this tell us? Comparing these clutch stats to their average game stats, we see that both Kobe and LeBron really step up their scoring in these situations. Furthermore, we see that LeBron’s rebounding, passing, defense as measured by steals and blocks, and accuracy all improve significantly. LeBron is also more turnover prone. Kobe, on the other hand, increases his accuracy for 3PT% and FT% but actually dips a little in overall FG% and he also passes and rebounds less, while getting fewer defensive stats. So you could make the argument that LeBron is the much better crunch time player and that Kobe seems much more intent on just scoring, either by getting to the line or from beyond the arc.
24…
The impact of their teams also cannot be discounted. In crunch time, both teams will rely heavily on their stars, but you can also see that LeBron leans more heavily on his team that Kobe does. Not only does LeBron make good passes that lead to assists more often, he is also assisted more often on his shots than Kobe is during crunch time (20% to 15%). This seems somewhat counterintuitive since the Cavs only seem to have one play in crunch time – give LeBron the ball at the top of the key then scratch our asses and wait for him to do something. Then again, Kobe does love his isolations. So which player would you really rather have handling the rock with the game on the line – the guy who tries to make the right play or the guy who goes for the glory?
However, there is more to consider when looking at these stats. For instance, this year the Cavs had a monstrous season, easily blowing out many of their opponents, resulting in a total 31 fewer minutes of clutch time for LeBron (111) than for Kobe (142). That is a 21.8% difference in total time, which is rather significant, so these stats must be taken with a grain of salt. Statistics are great in specific situations and for overall measures, but basketball is far too complex of a sport to provide any finality to an argument like this. In any case, the debate of Kobe vs. LeBron will surely need more in-depth analysis.
For starters, they play different positions and are unlikely to guard each other except for a few scant possessions here and there. However, you can bet money that with these two fierce competitors they will take opportunities to guard each other and relish it. In the Denver series, it was obvious that Kobe had trouble guarding Carmelo in the post. Melo is too strong and too big in the paint for Kobe to box out or defend effectively. LeBron’s post game is nowhere near as polished as Melo’s but if he can get some solid isolations in the paint against Kobe, his size should give him an advantage. On the perimeter, neither seems to have much of an advantage. In their regular season matchups, both shot poorly but LeBron is definitely more bothered by having a good defender on him than Kobe is. This is no doubt due to his experience, guile, and Kobe’s excellent jump shot. However, again, LeBron’s overall stat line is better than Kobe’s.
|
|
FG% |
3PT% |
FT% |
PTS |
REB |
AST |
STL |
BLK |
TO |
|
Kobe |
44 |
14.3 |
67 |
19.5 |
4.5 |
7.0 |
1.0 |
0.5 |
3.5 |
|
Lebron |
31 |
23.1 |
50 |
19.5 |
8.5 |
8.0 |
2.0 |
0.5 |
3.5 |
Back to the team factor, LeBron also has had to play more minutes per game than Kobe, and I don’t think anyone doubts that LeBron has to do more with less. This is evidenced by LeBron’s higher usage rate (percentage of team’s possessions the player uses per 40 minutes) compared to Kobe’s (32.2 vs. 30.2). Perhaps most telling is the fact that Lebron’s EWA (estimated wins added) far surpasses Kobe’s (32.3 vs. 20.6). This may again point to the fact that Kobe has a better supporting cast. When your top scoring threat in the post is the Lumbering Lithuanian, you know you’re in trouble. Thanks to the attention that teams must give to Pau Gasol and the matchup problems that Odom presents, Kobe Bryant can expect slightly less attention than LeBron so his individual stats should benefit. I say this tentatively because no coach in their right mind would tell his players to relax on Kobe, but at the same time they have to respect the Lakers’ frontcourt much more than the Cavs’. While both of them have their eyes on winning it all, Kobe had the luxury of letting his teammates win some games, no doubt skewing his stats.
…Nah man…23.
So is LeBron James better than Kobe Bryant? The statistics would certainly support that argument. I’ve heard analysts make arguments for both, but more often I hear that Kobe is the better player. I’ve heard some say that LeBron is better but they would rather have the ball in Kobe’s hands with the game on the line. While I am inclined to say the same, I will first offer a few numbers for you to chew on – 6, 3, and 45. The first number the age difference between Kobe and LeBron. While you may think that it may not make much of a difference, consider the fact that Kobe neglected to have surgery on his right pinky so that he wouldn’t miss time this season. Consider also the fact that Kobe is nearing that 1,000 regular season game mark where even the best of the best start to decline. LeBron still hasn’t hit his prime and Kobe is going to start declining real soon if he hasn’t already. The second number is the difference in height and as you can probably guess, the third is the difference in weight. What I’m really getting at is the fact that this argument isn’t really a fair one. They both have some similar skill sets but their bodies ultimately make them vastly different players. Kobe is a prototypical 2 guard and in a small ball lineup he could play the 3, but LeBron can comfortably play four positions in any sort of lineup. Physically it just isn’t a contest. Just think about the fact that ESPN published an article about the feasibility of LeBron playing in the NFL. They both idolized the same player growing up but LeBron’s body and mind developed in a way that necessitated his game being modeled a little less like Jordan and a little more like Magic. I maintain that this is an apples and oranges comparison, but for the sake of lending some finality to the argument, I would say that at this point in time, LeBron James is the better player and the one I would rather have on my team – unless I needed one bucket; then Kobe gets the nod, which is due to his ability to make shots without crab dribbling. This debate could literally go on forever, but for now, let’s just enjoy watching Kobe adds ring number four to his collection and wait until next year when we might have the chance to see these two meet on the big stage.
June 11th, 2009 at 1:11 pm
Somebody 'How dare you!' this guy…i nominate 'How Dare You' expert, PineTimePlayer
June 11th, 2009 at 1:36 pm
haha. one might be coming soon from one of the guys……..
June 11th, 2009 at 5:24 pm
Kobe looked tired in Game 3. After his scoring explosion in the first, I wondered aloud in my living room if he would have anything left in the tank for the fourth quarter. That semi-rhetorical question was answered by Kobe's FT attempts that were either short or off in the latter part of the game.
One had to wonder if all those games (regular season and playoffs, Redeem Team/Olympics, and intense training schedule) has finally caught up to the Black Mamba.
Considering he started his NBA career at age 18, instead of age 21-22 like most players before the explosion of preps-to-pros in the 1990's- early 2000's, he might be playing 2-3 years older than he really is. Just IMHO.
June 11th, 2009 at 5:59 pm
I totally agree. I alluded to it when I mentioned how many regular season games he's played. ESPN had an interesting stat yesterday about total games played before and after an Olympics and Kobe topped the list at around 204. I mean this is the second consecutive trip to the finals for him with a Summer Olympics sandwiched in between. That's no rest since the start of training camp of the 2007-2008 season. Anyone in his shoes would be feeling the effects of it.
After watching Kobe Doin' Work, I really think he could have a career in broadcasting – his basketball IQ and knowledge of the nuances of the game are really on display in that documentary. Definitely a good Spike Lee joint. But the point is, while his mental mastery of the game might be at its highest, his body is starting to give out on him, which is a big part of why at this point I'd pick Lebron over Kobe.
June 11th, 2009 at 8:22 pm
Lebron James right now, isn't better than Allen Iverson in his prime, how then, can he be better than Kobe Bryant as his?
Allen Iverson took his team, singlehandedly, with a worse supporting cast than Lebron's to the NBA Finals vs Shaq and Kobe and won game 1 in LA.
June 11th, 2009 at 8:38 pm
Lebron James right now, is not even better than Allen Iverson in his prime. How then can he be better than Kobe at his?
Lebron James '09
-MVP
-cast: Mo Williams, Delonte West, Varejao, Big Z
-finished 1st in conference.
- Lost to the Dwight Howard, Turk, Lewis and co. in the Eastern Conference Finals 4-1
Allen Iverson '01
-MVP
-supporting cast: Eric Snow, Aaron McKie, Tyrone Hill, Dikembe Mutombo
-finished 1st in conference
- Lost to Shaq, Kobe and co. in the NBA Finals 4-1
Both led their teams to the 1st seed in the Eastern Conference and ultimately won the League's MVP that year respectively.
The Cavs cruised through the playoffs until they met The Magic where they lost 4-1
in 2001, the Lakers going into the NBA finals had not lost a playoff game. Just crushed teams. Swept Portland, Sacramento, and San Antonio. Just dominated em.
And Iverson singlehandedly brought that HORRENDOUS 76ers team to the NBA Finals where he shocked everyone and beat LA in the Staples Center in Game 1.
June 11th, 2009 at 11:45 pm
WOW you did not just compare allen iverson to lebron. HDYS!!!!
AI is a gifted scorer and a decent passer. That's it. That 76ers team was not as horrendous as people (AI fans) claim – Motumbo just won his 2nd DPOY award that year and his collection of role players played stellar defense under Larry Brown. Don't forget the East was also pretty weak that year and the Sixers had to go 7 games against the Raptors and the Bucks to make it out of that conference. I give AI his props for that Bucks series and that win against the Lakers, cause I didn't think they'd get it done, but still, to say AI is better than Lebron… ridiculous. I feel bad for the guy since now his value is more in his contract than his heart or talent, but you gotta face the facts – he's got great individual talent that just doesn't translate into team success. But that in no way makes him a better player than Lebron.
You been sippin that Lebron flavored haterade.
June 12th, 2009 at 2:54 pm
I compared the players to their respective campaigns to the championships.
Yes, Mutombo was a great defender that year, but I don't think there is any doubt in ANYONEs mind that Lebron's supporting cast was better than AI's supporting cast in 01.
The Cavs role players played STELLAR defense under Mike Brown this year, so i don't know where you're going with that.
When you say the East was weak that year, it's an unfair statement to the Sixers and the other teams in the East. The Sixers won the Eastern Conference, just as the Cavs won their conference. That's what it boils down to. You compare the times, along with the teams. ALL teams in the East are better now, than in 00-01.
The Sixers went 7 games against Vince Carter and co. and i remember watching those games and VC and AI went back and forth the whole series. Each droppin like 50 in games dude. The Bucks series was great too.
At the end of the day, Allen Iverson in 00-01 was the best player in the league, as evidenced by the MVP trophy. Lebron James was the best player in the league this year.
The difference, Allen Iverson brought his team to the championships. He took his team farther than Lebron took his team.
Kobe won the MVP last year and brought his team to the Finals.
Lebron HAD TO HAVE brought his team to AT LEAST the finals for him to be considered better than Kobe. because when you look at it, Lebron isn't even better than an 01 AI.
June 12th, 2009 at 4:23 pm
umm what about when Lebron went to the finals against the spurs in 07 at a younger age than AI and DEFINITELY with less support? that counts for nothing?
June 12th, 2009 at 4:30 pm
without mo williams delonte or wally.
June 12th, 2009 at 5:39 pm
im going to wipe the look off her face!
June 12th, 2009 at 6:07 pm
my argument was that Lebron is not better than Kobe because Lebron wasnt even as good as even AI. Because Kobe's finals run > AI's finals run.
During that finals run vs the spurs, Lebron wasn't as good as Kobe.
but for argument's sake:
that support was still better than that sixers team support.
keep in mind that, in the 00-01 year…that ENTIRE sixers team was banged up. McKie or Snow was playing with like a broken foot.